FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The dark art of DC wiring for Electrofrog points.

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Model Trains Interactive Forum Index -> Modelling Tips
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Andy in Germany



Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 523
Location: Stuttgart

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 7:54 pm    Post subject: The dark art of DC wiring for Electrofrog points. Reply with quote

Okay, I've clearly missed something here.


Here is the current situation on our model, currently called the 'Kreisbahn':




The track is fed by the wires under the train, and at the moment there's no other wiring. The oval and loop work, but only when both points are set the same, and the points for the siding are set for the main line. If I set the points or the siding, or the loop pointwork is not the same both ends then nothing moves. I knew that the points will need wiring to change polarity, but it occurs to me that even that won't work on a loop because the whole circuit is shut off as soon as one of the points is changed.


I'm guessing there is some kind of jiggerypokery to do involving insulating fishplates to make this work, or possibly rituals involving druids, a full moon, and chicken entrails.


Any suggestions welcome...
_________________
Andy in Germany
More railway misadventures on:
www.korschtal.wordpress.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 2004
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice layout, Andy. I look forward to seeing how it develops. As to your question, I suspect that everyone who answers will have a different idea.

To answer your question fully it would be a help to know how you plan to operate the layout - crucially, how many locos do you want on the tracks at any one time? Looking at the track layout, I'm guessing that only one train will move at a time, but that you may want to hold another engine/train either in the dead-end spur or on one of the passing tracks.

The time-honoured C. J. Freezer method (probably used by Peco, whose track you appear to be using) is to break both rails with insulated fishplates somewhere on each of the passing loop tracks. Where you do this is a product of the operating method. My suggestion would be near the top of the left-hand loop turnout on the outer route, as you could then hold a loco between the end of the loop and the spur's turnout, while another loco shunts the spur. At the other end of the passing loop I'd go for putting the insulating fishplates at the top end of the right hand turnout on the inner track.

The method used in the USA would be to use insulating fishplates on both ends of both loops and feed each side of the loops and the main part of the oval as three separate electrical sections. This gives slightly more flexibility of operation with more than one loco.

Hope this helps.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it won't be popular, but I would recommend replacing electrofrog with insulafrog. Then wire up points so they are 'live' and add insulated sections. It is so much simpler, and less problems.
Models these days run so well , that there is less need for electrofrog. The modification I always do to Peco points, and I have cured the common problem of loss of power through the point blades.
It has been getting even worse for those using DCC, as it has been necessary to modify electrofrog points to reduce chances of short circuits.
_________________
Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Andy in Germany



Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 523
Location: Stuttgart

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

giles b wrote:
Nice layout, Andy. I look forward to seeing how it develops. As to your question, I suspect that everyone who answers will have a different idea.

To answer your question fully it would be a help to know how you plan to operate the layout - crucially, how many locos do you want on the tracks at any one time? Looking at the track layout, I'm guessing that only one train will move at a time...


Thanks Giles. It's good to finally be making something after so many false starts... As you say, this will definitely be a 'one engine in steam' model.

ruedetropal wrote:
I know it won't be popular, but I would recommend replacing electrofrog with insulafrog. Then wire up points so they are 'live' and add insulated sections. It is so much simpler, and less problems.
Models these days run so well , that there is less need for electrofrog.


Bummer. Ah, well, too late now.

After reading answers here and on the Narrow Gauge Modelling forum, I decided the simplest solution was to isolate all the rails on the frog end of the point nearest the camera. This way we didn't have to take all the track up (it was hard enough putting it down the first time) and still could isolate locomotives in the loop/siding. We added two isolating sections in the siding too, just because.

The model is a farher and sons project which is proving interesting. On the one hand it takes more time to make each stage, on the other it is more fun and having the boys interest keeps me moving...
_________________
Andy in Germany
More railway misadventures on:
www.korschtal.wordpress.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy,
it seems sometimes that I am waging a one man war, but sometimes feel some 'experts' in the hobby are out of touch, and something that might have been seen as essential before is no longer necessary. This has been further compounded by DCC, and the method of cutting the rails has come from this direction. One thing that bothers me is the number of people who give up because of problems, when they have apparently followed what they thought as 'expert' advice.
It will be interesting to see how Peco get on with their 'unifrog' which is switchable. I understand why they looking at it, but still feel they are going in wrong direction. Unfortunately marketing research in the hobby often follows the few rather than the majority. Fine if it is then treated as a minority, with price reflecting that, but don't think the rest of us should have to follow.
I would love to use some finescale track on some layouts, but as points are only available in live frog, then I can't. I have seen to many problems, and I seem to get standard response that their layout ran fine, but they must have been at a different exhibition. I would also happily use Peco O16.5 points, but again only live frog.
_________________
Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Model Trains Interactive Forum Index -> Modelling Tips All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group