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Schiller Point, US O scale.
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Jordan



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 1385

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blackcloud Railways wrote:

Where to bud?
Chicago please.
(Sharp intake of breath) Gee, that's gonna cost ya bud. Ged in then.

Beats "Don't go sahf of the River, mate" doesn't it..?? Laughing Rolling Eyes Wink
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What is this thing called "Spare Time"...??


Last edited by Jordan on Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jordan



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 1385

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more dodgy phone photos... it doesn't take very good ones, I'm afraid, certainly not close up...





And an overall view (ignore the mess behind it...)



The right-hand background has yet to be painted.
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Blackcloud Railways



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1983
Location: Sandbach UK

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty of time Jordan... Errrm, well, just under two months actually. Twisted Evil Razz Wink
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Bob Hughes
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Once there were mountains on mountains and once there were sunbirds to soar with and once I could never be down.
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Jordan



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 1385

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, plenty of time, then.... Razz Razz Razz

Embarassed Embarassed
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mog



Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 450
Location: Mansfield Notts UK

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is looking good. The angle of view, the fact that it's O scale US.. I reckon this will be a crowd-puller !
Did you 'force the perspective' on the road? The layout looks really deep and I wondered if you'd made the road embankment smaller toward the rear to assist that perception?
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Jordan



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 1385

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mog wrote:

Did you 'force the perspective' on the road?

Yes, a little bit - the road rises a bit to the front, although it's level across the bridge. I was trying to get it so that the viewer can't see the road surface itself, and the traffic forms the backscene. It hasn't quite worked out like that, but it still makes a good "3D" backscene, I think.
Ideally the road should cross the tracks in a straight line, but for the layout I've had to sharpen the angle somewhat, forcing a bend that shouldn't be there, but I think I've got away with it...
The visible section is four feet deep, of course - the same as the width across the frontpiece..!!
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Jordan



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've managed to get in some time on this recently and get some of the outstanding jobs done.
The right-hand backscene is now painted (sorry the pics are so rubbish Embarassed )


On the Interstate, the gantry sign is now in place, and the embankment foliage complete. I still have to make some streetlights. The overall view now looks like this:-


I had another try at close-ups, with the help of the sunshine today - not that my phone-camera seemed to notice...



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shortliner2001



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jordan - that is most effective - great job!
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Jordan



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jack! I also managed to get to a Morrisons (not so local to me, and not our regular "shop"...) and found the silicon sheet Wink now in place under the bridge, which has also had the shadows 'enhanced' with matt black spray paint.... Cool
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Jordan



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:55 pm    Post subject: Layout Height Issue... Reply with quote

As the Show is getting closer, my thoughts are turning to the height this layout should be exhibited at. I know this can be a contentious issue, and there's no pleasing everyone, but what are your thoughts in this case..?

I plan to have it set quite high, so the average adult gets the 'trackside' view without stooping, and I designed the height of the backscenes and the size of the Viewing Window (for want of a better term!?!) with such a view in mind. It also prevents looking right over the top to the hidden sidings.
This does mean that younger children would need to be lifted/stand on something to see it - in fact so will the rear Operator!!, but wheelchair users will have no chance.
I doubt small children or wheelchair users could see it if I only lower it by just a few inches, however, if I lower it by much, adults will be at eye-level with "Schiller Point" on the fascia, and have to bend to get the sort of view I intended, so nobody benefits.
Should I just not worry about those too short to see, and hope that there's enough other layouts at lower heights for them to view instead...??

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Broadoak



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
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Location: Northamptonshire

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I were you Jordan I would set the layout height at what suits you best.

If it is too high for children to see without being lifted up by their parents it can work to your advantage. They are less likely to touch the layout if they are being held by a parent.
As regards the disabled Iím afraid there is not much you can do to assist their viewing.

Two Sisterís Farm is at ironing board height which is fine for children and disabled visitors. Though we do have a few anxious moments some days when children are keen to touch the models. The vast majority of parents are fine but you do get the odd one who seems to have no control of their offspring whatever.

The layout is looking really good by the way.

Regards,
Peter
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Blackcloud Railways



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1983
Location: Sandbach UK

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disregarding the issue of the vertically challenged, if the layout is set so that standing adults get a trackside view they will be able to see clear under the road bridge. Mounting the layout slightly lower, so that eye height for the average adult (whatever one of those is) works out slightly above road level but below that of the proscenium arch will mean that the fiddleyard, or its screening curtain, is not quite so obvious beneath the bridge.

I took Arundale to Crewe this weekend. About halfway through yesterday afternoon I dropped it from chest height (on me) to waist height. This enabled most children to see it unaided and also allowed me to sit down to operate the layout. Nobody commented either way but you could see some parents were a lot happier not having to lift their offspring and I was a lot happier sitting down. Very Happy
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Jordan



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not too worried about the view right under the bridge... as can be seen in one of the photos above, it has quite some 'shadow' to it - helped with matt black paint and black silicon sheet strips - I've seen far more 'open' exits to hidden sidings. Hopefully the foreground will also draw attention away from the back.
I really want to avoid too much bending for adults. Apart from the effort involved in dropping the layout height once set up - rather too much effort, I think, having it at "seated" height would really work against the whole idea; Adults just wouldn't bend down that far, and the all-too-common "Helicopter View" would be the result.... Sad Confused
I always take a little step-up with me to Shows for my lad - saves lifting especially as he grows up!!
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Simon Hargraves



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given that "Schiller Point", by its very nature, needs to have the spectators' view "controlled" to achieve the effect you've set out to create, I would agree that it needs to be at a height such that the "average" (say 5ft 6ins-6ft?) adult can view it in reasonable comfort.
At quite a few exhibitions I've been to in recent years, hop ups have been available for those with small children, and there were periscopes provided at the St.Albans show this year.......it was very noticeable that a lot of kids thought these were great fun, and, of course, it is a solution for those who are wheelchair-bound.
Having, courtesy of good friends, been taken to several shows while I was in a wheelchair (managed to crock both my left leg AND arm, so I couldn't use crutches!) I reckon that it isn't as great an issue as some people make out as I found I could still see even the higher level layouts pretty well......in fact, being at the top end of the "average" in height, I reckon I got a more realistic view of the layouts that were displayed at a lower height, which I now get backache to achieve..... Rolling Eyes
Ironically, a friend of mine who is around 6'6" tall dislikes the proscenium style of display as he finds he has to stoop to see under the top of the "window", which just goes to prove that whatever you do, SOMEONE will be inconvenienced by it! Laughing
Peter makes a very valid point about having the layout height to suit you and any co-operators; after all, you're the one who will be operating the thing all day/weekend and nothing will destroy your enthusiam faster than a layout that causes aches and pains.
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alastairq



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi......I don't often go to exhibitions........I don't often go to classic car shows either....


although it has be noted , I have an almost extreme passion for both.

Perhaps its because I've not got that natural herding instinct most of the population have got?

Anyhow.....one of the dislikes I have regarding model shows is the inevitable crowds right in front of exhibits.

being a somewhat tall person [but apparently getting shorter by the minute]...I find myself being allowed to be squeezed out towards the back of a scrummage.....probably out of politeness?

I think, for some exhibits, the viewing public really is allowed to get 'too close'.....may be this might point to a solution for Schiller's Point?

If the viewers are physically kept a bit further away than 'normal', then perspective sight lines will tend to blend together, so height of eye becomes less of an issue.


A bit like theatre?

Where actors' make-up is often exaggerated in the dressing room, yet appears 'normal' when viewed from an auditorium? [for example?}


I notice this 'effect' when viewing finescale layouts, complete with [C&S?] scale bullhead track, with detail right down to the correct numbers of chair bolts, etc....

In photos..[the capabilities of which have ever more advanced over the years]...every last detail can be seen and appreciated, at length and without discomfort [of others pushing and shoving]....

from a normal audience viewing point, the track might just as well be Tri-ang super four...for all that the detail is lost from sight.!!!!!!!!!

I would try setting the layout further back from the viewers..not by much.....then taller people will suffer less....[or provide binoculars?}
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