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Puerto Paseo
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1969
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Puerto Paseo Reply with quote

As the Project 2012 thread is getting a bit long - and 2013 is heading into Autumn - I thought a re-branding of the thread was called for. With the rolling stock collection taking shape and the modelling season fast approaching when I can visit some local shows for needful ingredients, the time for baseboard building is almost upon us.

In order to make the layout more easily portable, and more storage friendly, the decision has been taken to reduce the length and width to 48ins by 13ins - at least initially. If everything works out as planned another six inches can be added to the platforms and new side timbers will bring the width to 15 inches. This should allow the second goods siding from the original design to reappear and will also help to ease the slightly crowded look.

Just as a reminder, here's the original wider plan.


The second goods siding and turntable kick-back have now gone and there is no longer room for the crew hostel between the two lines at the station throat. It is possible that the water tank will move to this position, otherwise the bridge will have a single wide arch, to accommodtae both lines.

The other knock-on is that the fiddle yard traverser can no longer have three entry tracks as there is not enough sideways movement to allow this if there is also to be a fixed siding representing the docks. Instead one of the lines on the traverser will need a turnout to provide the third track. This of course means these two tracks will be shorter than previously hoped. It is still planned to have stub sidings between the scenic break and the traverser.
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Blackcloud Railways



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1984
Location: Sandbach UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Puerto Paseo Reply with quote

giles b wrote:
... there is no longer room for the crew hostel between the two lines at the station throat. It is possible that the water tank will move to this position, otherwise the bridge will have a single wide arch, to accommodate both lines.

I'd stick with the two separate exits to fiddleyard to emphasise the difference between the docks and main line, even if only with a narrow pier between the two spans. Also consider having the main as an arch and the harbour with a girder span, again to emphasise the different lines. If space between the two lines is at a premium the water tank could be built over the harbour line to save room, also creating extra shunt moves as light engines run under the tank to take water.
giles b wrote:

The other knock-on is that the fiddle yard traverser can no longer have three entry tracks as there is not enough sideways movement to allow this if there is also to be a fixed siding representing the docks. Instead one of the lines on the traverser will need a turnout to provide the third track. This of course means these two tracks will be shorter than previously hoped. It is still planned to have stub sidings between the scenic break and the traverser.

A fixed track for the docks should not create too many problems as wagons would naturally be crane shunted once off stage anyway. As for the remaining traverser, would cassettes fit the available area better? This would mean you'd retain the full length tracks and could even have more capacity as extra trains are built by adding extra cassettes at the same time. Storage can be off the layout on a convenient shelf or table instead of occupying the fiddleyard area.
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1969
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm there ahead of you, Bob, on some of your ideas. I'd already thought of two different bridge designs, but with the 4ft length there isn't width for the water tank between the two exits as I hoped. The platform lengths are adequate but the station throat has become rather minimal and the king point will be partially obscured from the operator (I want to operate the layout from in front of the fiddle yard). For this reason I am contemplating a return to a length of 4ft 6ins which will allow the point to be daylighted rather than hidden below the control panel which will form a bridge over the line just behind the backscene dividing the layout and fiddle yard.

Regarding the traverser/cassette question, I tend to the former, but will check the timetable to see if the latter is an advantage. I have drawn up a "working timetable" that shows when operations have to be interrupted to add or take trains off. As some trains only appear once a day this would not be to much trouble, and the railcars never need to leave the rails.
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CRACKED



Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 131
Location: Lowestoft, Suffolk

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you considered putting the harbour siding on a slope, and emphasizing the summit into the station. The idea is to give an impression of a the line descending to the harbour, and also giving a slight vertical difference at the exits to the fiddle yard.
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1969
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those of you who like timetables - or at least sequence tables - here is a day's activity at Puerto Paseo. Bear in mind the station is owned by the Este company, but the Centrale & Oueste (C&O) have running powers. The line leaving Puerto Paseo is single but there is a passing loop at Paseo Ciudad (3/4 mile) and at St Juan (1.25 miles from the terminus). This is the location of the loco shed and turntable so all incoming steam locos have to run to and from the depot light engine.

0710 Este railcar arrives platform 1 (ex Arenal 0630)
0730 " railcar departs to Arenal
0815 " station pilot arrives from San Juan shed
0830 " passenger train arrives platform 2 (ex Bahia Grande 0700)
Pilot shunts coaches to platform 1
Train loco departs to San Juan shed
Pilot starts making up C&O freight in platform 2
0930 C&O freight loco arrives (assits with shunting if required)
1000 Este loco arrives from San Juan shed
1015 " passenger departs to Bahia Grande (arr 1145)
1030 C&O freight departs (to Ciudad Nuevo and Agua Dulce)
1055 Este railcar arrives platform 2 (ex Arenal 1020)
1125 " railcar departs to Arenal (arr 1205)
1140 C&O passenger/mail arrives (ex Agua Dulce 0530)
Pilot releases loco to run to shed and replaces train at
platform 1
1230 Este freight arrives platform 2 (ex Bahia Grande 0830)
train loco & pilot dispose of train
train loco and pilot depart to San Juan shed
1400 C&O passenger loco arrives from San Juan shed
1430 " passenger/mail train departs (arr Agua Dulce 2030)
1445 Este railcar arrives (ex Arenal 1410) Fridays Only
1455 Este Pilot loco arrives from San Juan shed
Pilot makes up freight train - platform 1
1515 Este loco arrives from San Juan
1525 " railcar departs to Arenal - platform 2 Fridays Only
1550 " Freight departs (arr Bahia Grande 1900)
1600 Este Mixed arrives - platform 1 (ex Bahia Grande 1415)
train loco to San Juan shed
1630 C&O freight arrives - platform 2
Pilot releases train loco - loco departs to San Juan shed
Pilot shunts train
1745 Este railcar arrives platform 2 (ex Arenal 1710)
1800 * " loco arrives from San Juan, helps make up train *
1840 " Passenger departs to Bahia Grande (not Fridays/Saturdays/Fiestas)
1850 " Pilot to San Juan shed
1930 " Railcar departs to Arenal (arr 2005)
2130 " Loco arrives from San Juan shed Fri/Sat Fiestas ONLY
2145 " Passengers departs to Bahia Grande (arr 2330)
(Fridays/Saturdays/Fiestas ONLY)


Notes
1. Railcars run back to back to avoid the need for turning.
2. On Fridays, Saturdays and Fiestas the 1600 Mixed arrival is run as a
passenger service, strengthened with two more coaches. This returns as
the retimed 2145 departure.
3. The station pilot has three periods in the day when it can shunt the
dockside branch. If this proves inadequate a locomotive owned by the
Junta del Pueto (Port Authority) will be provided.
4. At present there is no provision for a minerals train run by the C&O
although there is a slightly inconvenient path available, involving a long
crew shift - assuming the train runs through from the C&O system. If a
switcher was available at the point where the C&O meets the Este, it
might be possible to work the final part of the "Minerales" as a trip
working. With hopper unloading at the docks not taking too long it may
be possible to slot this working in more conveniently. This will be
studied at a later date.
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1969
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRACKED wrote:
Have you considered putting the harbour siding on a slope, and emphasizing the summit into the station. The idea is to give an impression of a the line descending to the harbour, and also giving a slight vertical difference at the exits to the fiddle yard.


I don't think there's enough visible track on the harbour branch to make much of a gradient - about 8 inches. All past surveys of Puerto Paseo suggest the station and harbour are at the same level. However I haven't ruled out having a cargo ship visible on the backscene with a high wall and possibly some one-storey low-relief stores sheds in front of it, which should make the point quite well.
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Blackcloud Railways



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1984
Location: Sandbach UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about an implied, rather than modelled, gradient on the harbour line?

A lineside sign just before the bridge indicating a gradient change would give the impression of the branch descending as it leaves the station area. This could be compounded with a similar sign alongside the main line indicating that it climbs once it's beyond the bridge.

http://www.railsigns.co.uk/sect24page1/sect24page1.html

For example level to 1 in 75 up for the main and level to 1 in 50 down for the branch. Take a look at the exit to fiddleyard on Warley Fen, as seen on the link below, there's a gradient sign near the gateway (even though the fiddleyard is not actually on an incline).
http://playingtrains.wordpress.com/mylayouts/larger-scales/
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1969
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Returning to the timetable for a minute.......

having introduced the subject of Fiestas into the mix, I thought a quick trawl on Wikipaedia might be instructive for Latin American public holidays.

Isla Blanca's calendar now includes the following holidays (or days when rail traffic differs from the normal):-

1 Jan Nuevo Ano
6 Jan Reyes Magos/ Dia del Ninos (the day children get their Christmas presents)
12 Mar San Jose
varies eve of Carnavale - augmented passenger service
varies Carnavale
4 April Independence Day
varies Holy Thursday (no freight - augmented passenger service)
varies Viernes Santo (No rail service)
varies Lunes de Pasqua
1 May Labour Day
varies Fiesta del Corpus Christi
15 Aug Fietsa del Assuncion/ Virgen de la Paloma de Madrid
Oct 12 Dia del Colon
Nov 1 Day of the Dead (All Saints)
Dec 24 No Freight - augmented passenger service
Dec 25 Natividad (No service)
Dec 26 Santo Stefano

It soon became obvious that some holidays, particularly the pre-Lenten Carnavale, Easter and Christmas, mean that people want to return to their home villages and towns the day before and so trains may need to be strengthened on the eve of these events.


Last edited by giles b on Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1969
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After some thought, the baseboard is going to be a bit wider:- 16 ins. This is not unconnected with the fact that I have a piece of hardboard that was once the backscene for the Catwater & Southern portable layout that is the right size. In theory there could be room to reinstate the turntable and second freight siding, although the addition of the latter might make the site look too cramped. The turntable would be good as it gives the railcars more to do if they need to be turned between trips (also saves having to make so many of them).

With luck, baseboard construction should take place this week-end so I'll have a chance to judge things laid out full size.
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Blackcloud Railways



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1984
Location: Sandbach UK

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reinstating the turntable would be good, allowing the single ended cars to run solo instead of paired back to back. I think such pairing always looks contrived, plus as you say there's the added operational interest of turning the cars instead of just shuttling in and out.
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1969
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did a lot of playing about on Friday evening with paper and turnout templates and/or track; the result was a decision to make the baseboard 18ins wide, which is almost the width of my original plan. However I'm going to use a track layout with features of both the first and second versions of the plan. I want to preserve a reasonable width for the longer platform, but the one at the back can be a bit narrower and the building flanking it will be little more than a façade against the back-scene. There should just be room for the turntable but when the long railcar is being turned I think it is likely to overhang the loading gauge on the main line.

The extra two inches should give (just) enough width for the second freight track - can't really call it a goods yard. There will be the suggestion of a goods shed but the lines are really sorting tracks for wagons coming and going on the harbour branch, which logically is where the freight action would be taking place. The terminus will be a bit cramped but it is supposedly shoe-horned into a small corner of an existing city centre.


Also had a rethink about the road bridge disguising the exit to the fiddle yard. The latest idea is a tall building situated at the front beyond the turntable which should partially block the view of the main line vanishing offstage. Behind this a high wall shuts off the dockyard with the fright line passing through an arched gateway, shared with the roadway (hence the tram loco) with possibly a military guardhouse, a relic of the island's Spanish colonial past. Scope for some 18th century defence works here if I can find a picture of something suitable to copy. If time runs out it will more likely turn into a concrete blockhouse.

Two baseboards got built over the week-end, but the late changes to the track layout mean I'm now a turnout or two short.

The other major change is the substitution of "ladder" sidings rather than the traverser in the fiddle yard. A number of reasons for this, including the wish for a pair of harbour sidings, for which there is insufficient width with the traverser. Also the runners were only just smaller than the baseboard width, which did not give much lateral room to traverse in. This has meant a slightly longer fiddle yard than originally intended - both baseboards are now 4ft 6ins long. However there should definitely be room for the rolling stock under construction.
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1969
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the baseboards built on Saturday has a bit of a curve, with the ends lifting off the horizontal. I thought I'd chosen timber as straight as possible, but plywood 4ft x 2ft sheets only seem to be sold with the main grain running across the 24inch width, and so a bit bendy, whereas I've always tried to have it cut with lengthways grain whenever possible. Thought that a piece of facing moulding along the front might help to pull it into shape, but no luck so far. It's possible the addition of the back-scene board may do the trick, but I think I'll have to lift the ply off the frame, cut it into shorter lengths matching the cross bracing then re-fit it with alternate pieces laid upside down. That way any curvature should, with luck, cancel out.


Has anyone done this? Does it work?
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CRACKED



Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 131
Location: Lowestoft, Suffolk

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it could have been worse. You might have used MDF and discovered the problem after you had assembled the layout at an exhibition. MDF is very prone to distortion if in damp and cold conditions. There was approximately a 6mm (1/4") drop in the centre of a 900mm (3') baseboard. The normal plywood bracing at roughly 12" spacing had not proved adequate. Fortunately it did not actually cause any running problems so we have not tried to correct it. The major cause of derailments is the cassette system we decided to use, you cannot see whether or not some stock is correctly on the aluminium angles used as rails and sides.

Now for the question, before I get some for my layout. Did you use exterior grade or interior grade plywood?. The local independent timber merchants only stock exterior grade, because of problems they and other people have had with interior grade plywood.
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah! That's why I had to go round three stores before I could find the interior plywood. To be far I've not had problems with it before and usually use the 4mm variety; this is 6mm. Main reason for seeking it out (not knowing about the potential problems) was price:- around £13 upwards for a 4x2 as opposed to a little under £6 a sheet...............looks like you get what you pay for, but having said that the second baseboard is fine.

I'll go over my construction on Wednesday and see what I can improve.
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1969
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea of cutting the bent baseboard's ply into several sections has worked well. When they were fitted back together there was only the smallest suggestion of "lift" at one corner. This is the end of the board where the turntable will go, so I had been unwilling to cut through here as an extra cross-brace would foul the turntable well.

After a week of seeing if/how the central heating affects the baseboard it appears to have curved a little, again. Looks like I'll have to make another cut and see how it can be braced without getting in the way.

Failing that I'll use the fiddle yard board (nice and flat) for the station area and put up with a less than perfect board under the fiddle yard where there will usually be a loco attached to any standing stock and no need to shunt with automatic couplings.
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