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Project sometime - CF de Camargue?

 
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 6:00 pm    Post subject: Project sometime - CF de Camargue? Reply with quote

To separate this train of thought from the originbal thread which got sidetracked a bit.
Just one of my many ideas, this one promprted by Giles mentioning water tank wagons on the CF de Camargue in Southern France.
This was an extensive metre gauge railway , principally built to transport salt, but also a lot of passenger trains on 4 routes.
Electrification started in the 1920s, making it even more interesting, and final trains stopped unfortunately in late 1950s.
I have found quite a bit online, including some station plans. The main bases was at Arles, and the station area still has many of the old buildings, visable on Google map, satelite view. It is far too big to model, so might look at other stations.
A book was published 10 years ago , Le Petit Train de la Camargue - Paul Genelot, but as you would expect is now out of print and difficult to get hold of. Some of it is on Google books (As a taster, pointless if you can't get the book). Just wish some of these not so old books were available as 'print on demand', unless that is an option with Google. Maybe LR Press ill do something as good as they have done for other metre gauge lines.
I have come across a scale drawing of one of the older coaches, but suspect they were standard issue. In later years there ere some centre door Decauville coaches, looking more like parts of a railcar.
Original steam locos included the Pinguely built, similar to Corpet Louvre locos, so tempting, but it is the boxcab electrics that really interest me, but can't find any more info.
Suspect someone with drawing skills could draw one based on the good collection of photos.
Their uniqueness at the end , probably meant they went for scrap as no other lines to use them. The older wagons and coaches were probably life expired, but there were also some larger hopper type wagons for salt I presume, and the more modern Decauville coaches, so onder what happened to them.
As for scale I am thinking 5.5mm ft, using 16.5mm gauge track. It is not quite right, but close enough, and has advantage of low cost chassis, and I have already done a 3D printed Corpet, so could easily do the Pinguely.
I have been building up a collection of accessories, including some wargaming 28mm stuff which is slightly too small, but good enough and some slightly bigger 1/54 scale diecast cars.
I would probably assume lines lasted into the 60s to make it easier. Its a pity the lines closed so early, as the wealth and tourism in the area would have given it a good chance of being preserved.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just been looking at the plan for Arles station. Overall it would be far too big, unless I made it my last big project, and I would get bored very quickly. Prefeer smaller, easier to finish projects.
Anyway, I think it might be possible to build a very small part of it around the passenger station building.
Trackwise this would just mean all the pointwork at that end of station.
And for those who know me, I will attempt to fit it in an Ikea APA box. Length wise, no problem , its the depth , as there are 4 lines and 2 platforms, plus buildings. Backscene is the workshops, and nothing except thin air to divide station area from fiddle yard, unless I add something.
From an operating point of view there should be a lot happening, given the size of station, both passenger arrival/departures and freight wagons moving around.
Just need some scale drawings for electric locos, and those 'modern' Decauville coaches. I found a drawing of one of the balcony coaches.

I would like to build model in 5.5mm/ft,as track and mechanisms relatively cheap, but given tight space, it might have to be HOm.

Here is some info about book out of print, but has plan of station
http://livradecouvrir.blogspot.co.uk/2008/01/n211-25-fvrier-2006.html
I also found another website with loads of pictures of the station as it is now.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 2005
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arles, Trinquetaille - that's the most "main line" metre gauge terminus layout I've ever seen. They seem to have shoe-horned in everything including the kitchen sink!

However, what an awkward entrance/exit from the goods yard, let alone the way the Nimes line only has direct access to half the station yard as the scissors crossings all go the other way. Odd.
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose it could be built in N scale on 6.5mm track, and not actually be that big. I need to look at Google map to get an idea of size, but would prefer not to go down to such a small scale. It is the station area that interests me.
In some ways Nimes is a better bet, but possibly not so interesting to operate. Arles has excuse for and CF de Carmargue trains to be running. All the other stations are small(easier to build), but less operational interest. Also buildings atArles still exist and plenty of photos. The track plan is not quite right, according to one of the photos. No date on the plan, but it does suggest it is in railcar era.
To fit it in APA box I am thinking of using some type of fold out in front to put station buildings etc on. I like a challenge.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thought is to turn the view 180 deg, and have station building low relief on back wall. Would still like to have round water tower in front .

I would like to get hold of a copy of LE PETIT TRAIN DE LA CAMARGUE Paul GENELOT, published only in 2004, but out of print. Some pages on google, I would be happy with an online copy, as some drawings shown(balcony coach) but really want a drawing of the electric locos, and the more modern Decauville coaches. Not sure if they are in book, if not less interest in book as I have a lot of the other info.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing after putting in requests for info, I got an email from someone in France who had an article from the 1970s about the railway. I think the book is basically an expanded version of the article as similar photos and text. Anyway I now have drawings for the electric locos and the railcar, as well as some of the rolling stock.
That is enough to get started, but still no drawing of the ore wagons or the aluminum coaches. I think these might have been built on old chassis, certainly they used old bogies according to the article. This might explain lack of info from Decauville sources.
No all I need is the time to get started, with so many other projects .
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been very luck with someone sending me scans of drawing of locos, and only yesterday one of the bogie salt wagons(5 were transferred to the Cf de la Mure).
I have a Tillig TT gauge bogie loco, and it is not really suitable for another project, but is very close to the Camargue electric loco in 1/76 scale(HO is too small), and so I am thinking of a small working layout(circle of track in effect) in 1/76 scale. I can even use some WW2 military models.
I have started on the 3D design for the loco, initially in 1/55, but it can easily be re-sized. I did a quick re-size to check TT chassis against computer generated drawing.
initial picture here. There were a number of design changes from original drawing, which I spotted from real photos.



Link to Shapeways model here. It won't be available for a while though
https://www.shapeways.com/model/2869951/?li=aeTabs
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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alastairq



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 355
Location: the land that time forgot

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now...this, I like! Smile How was power collected?
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

overhead power, large pantographs on roof. I have only just started on design, and might be able to 3D print some basic pantographs.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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alastairq



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 355
Location: the land that time forgot

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the pans, I'm immediately thinking ''Sommerfeldt?'

Although, probably find something equally lacy from Hornby/B/mann or their associates?
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the 1/76 version I should be able to buy something, but in 1/55 scale, the ultimate aim for the project, most of what is available is too small(or costs a fortune).
The plastic is 'strong and flexible' so has some 'bounce' in it so even in operating position would not be too rigid. Also the station module in 1/55 ,I plan will not be very big.
The 1/76 version will allow me to test out height of catenery etc as well. Fortunately there are quite a few photos I have collected online, and the simple geometric shape of the locos makes it easier to estimate other dimensions.
Its a long term project, I was just wanting to design something different o my track sections.
I think the lines were electrified from 1920, so there might be some sort of centenary event in 2020.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought I had posted link to railway photos. I found a lot on Google, but this was whee I started
http://c.f.camargue.free.fr/Galerie613.htm
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just got hold of the 1977 published society booklet with lots of info. I had already been sent scans of this article, but handy to have original. I suspect the book that was written and published 10 years ago was based on this article. It is a fair chunk of the booklet, nearly 50 pages out of total of 80, much of rest is news of other lines, a bit like you get in Narrow Gauge Society news mag.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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