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Prototype for everything - GWR Princess Royal
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Cheshire001



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 50
Location: Crewe

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:05 pm    Post subject: Prototype for everything - GWR Princess Royal Reply with quote

Introduction
I started a thread on the old CRM website listing some curiosities I had come across - sure fire winners for fooling rivet-counting know-alls.

Thought it may be good to re-start it here.

'Prototype ballasting?
My first contribution: Have you been watching the documentary about First Great Western on TV? A lot of coverage of the damage to the sea wall around Dawlish. A contractor was explaining how they had built the sea defences, then relaid and ballasted the track. He added that as much of the ballast had been washed out to sea during the storms, they intended to stop this happening again by bonding the ballast together so that it became a solid mass. Does this seem familiar to us? Sadly he didn't mention the 'drop of washing up liquid'...
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Last edited by Cheshire001 on Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:09 am; edited 6 times in total
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Cheshire001



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 50
Location: Crewe

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off-course GWR railcar
In "Through Limestone Hills" there is a picture of GWR railcar W14W a long way from home on a Birmingham railway Club trup to Buxton (MR/LNWR).

I'm sure that somewhere I have seen a picture of a GWR railcar on test in the north-east - just can't remember in which book.
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Roy.


Last edited by Cheshire001 on Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Blackcloud Railways



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: Sandbach UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As there really is a prototype for everything I'll post a link to this blog entry from last summer here. Very Happy

http://playingtrains.wordpress.com/2014/07/10/theres-a-prototype-for-everything/
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Bob Hughes
Playing Trains

Once there were mountains on mountains and once there were sunbirds to soar with and once I could never be down.
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in the 1948 trials, a GWR railcar was tested around Bradford.
And when one was preserved on the Kent and East Sussex line, they had fun getting it through some of the Hastings line narrow tunnels.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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CRACKED



Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 134
Location: Lowestoft, Suffolk

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trials of GWR railcars in the North-East occurred in 1944 and involved No.s 6 & 19. The LNER was seriously considering the purchase of 60 railcars after the war to replace the Sentinels. I think there may have been a photograph in MTI.

Another interesting prototype for anything involving GWR stock in the North-East occurred just prior to the Grouping. Twenty GWR brake vans were loaned (free of charge) to the NER to cover a shortage. These remained in full GWR Livery.
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Jordan



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 1388

PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: Prototype for everything Reply with quote

Cheshire001 wrote:
.....as much of the ballast had been washed out to sea during the storms, they intended to stop this happening again by bonding the ballast together so that it became a solid mass. Does this seem familiar to us? Sadly he didn't mention the 'drop of washing up liquid'...

Yes I saw that - and had to smile Laughing Life imitating Art or what? The spray 'glue' even looked like diluted PVA as well.... Razz
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Cheshire001



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 50
Location: Crewe

PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rails in the street
Caernarfon Hoarbour, 1958. The MoD deemed the harbour to be of strategic importance and accordingly the road surface was relaid flush with the railhead. To ensure the flangeways were clear to accept rail traffic, a 2MT 2-6-0 was hired from Bangor shed to traverse the entire siding network and depress the flangeways.

Personally I'd have used Pollyfilla and a pair of old wagon wheels...

Also, how many of us have tested a new layout with an unlikely locomotive running to the end of every siding, many of which will hardly see a rail vehicle again!
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Cheshire001



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 50
Location: Crewe

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:46 pm    Post subject: Prototype for Everything - The Rivet Counter Reply with quote

The Rivet Counter

I visited a delightful little show in Goathland ("Aidensfield") last summer. Chatting to an operator he recounted that a member of the public had been critisising the latest Bachmann steam locomotive for having the wrong number of rivets in the rear of the tender.

Then a voice spoke up from a few positions along the barrier. "I used to put the rivets in them things at Darlington Works and we never bothered counting. If the plates hadn't closed up, we just put another one in".

'nuff said.
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those who complain about 'colour' should note that paint used to be very expensive and some railways would try to save money. Some Caledonian locos were painted with heavily diluted paint, not far off being white.
There is also a story about a couple of people painting a loco at Swindon works. They started at one end with 'normal strength' paint, but they realised they would not have enough to finish the job, and instead of getting more, diluted the paint to make it go further. Would have been nice to see a photo of the what left the shed, although it probably soon acquired a coat of grime.
There used to be some debate as to hat colour GWR coaches were actually painted at start of 20th century. The term 'chocolate brown; is actually an official artist colour based on the colour Bourneville chocolate wrappers were, ie red not brown.
Annoys me when Heritage people say a paint is the wrong shade, as modern paint is different and air condition(ie smoke) change the shade. When our local Victorian market building was refurbished they were told it was the wrong shade so it had to be repainted, as if they had money to burn!
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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Cheshire001



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 50
Location: Crewe

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting comments about colour, Simon. I have long thought some people rather pedantic about this, given the effects of distance/atmosphere/weather, fading, weathering etc. I even saw a 150 in Devon halfway to being bleached white, presumably by repeated passes along the sea wall. Presuming paint quality has improved over the years, I fail to see how folk can argue about a shade remembered from 50 years ago.

Having said that a couple of colours on models do look wrong. Firstly the noses of diesels back in 70s/80s just shouted 'yellow plastic' and secondly I just think a lot of new Hornby steam locos seem to have a very bluish shade of green. Perhaps this is just a personal bias as I am too young to have seen a green steam loco in service!
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I would like to see all r2r locos coming out in weathered condition, and if you want then unprototypically clean then you can pay extra. Given all the other highly detailed parts I don't think it unreasonable.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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Cheshire001



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 50
Location: Crewe

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freightliner Mixed Train?
From the cover of Trains 'sixty nine annual.

The picture portrays a class 47 in two-tone green with full yellow ends. It is hauling a freightliner train with all the boxes in the original grey livery with a red stripe. Coupled immediately behind the loco is what appears to be a filthy non-corridor suburban coach, possibly a brake as the pattern of windows seems different at one end.

The caption only describes it as a London-Glasgow liner diverted over the S&C due to engineering works on the WCML, 1967.

Obviously I'm not seriously thinking this is a mixed train! Perhaps a dynamometer car, but it's dirty condition and numerous doors make this unlikely. Presumably a piece of rolling stock being taken to/from a works, although in 1967 I would have thought it would have been added to a freight train - I have seen several pictures with parcel vans and spare coaches in the consist. And why drag a coach to the rather specialised container terminal when there were plenty of freight trains still running?

Perhaps we don't have to have an answer ready if we want to run something unusual?
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davidbromage



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 355
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheshire001 wrote:
Freightliner Mixed Train?
From the cover of Trains 'sixty nine annual.

The picture portrays a class 47 in two-tone green with full yellow ends. It is hauling a freightliner train with all the boxes in the original grey livery with a red stripe. Coupled immediately behind the loco is what appears to be a filthy non-corridor suburban coach, possibly a brake as the pattern of windows seems different at one end.

Anything like this?
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_01_2010/post-6751-12640013547864_thumb.jpg

Redundant coaching stock was used as a brake van before ASLEF agreed to the guard riding in the rear cab of the loco.

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David
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davidbromage



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 355
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What technically is a mixed is a modern DRS nuclear flask train. The Mk 2 escort vehicles are still accredited as coaching stock.

http://www.totnestrains.com/uploads/6/9/2/9/6929845/3299994_orig.jpg
http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/images/2012-MAY/20302-312-01-05-12-6Z40-CREWE-KEYHAM-SILKILLS-BP.JPG

Cheers
David
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A passenger train is one which can carry passengers(fare paying? ).
A freight train is one which carries freight, not people.
A mixed train is therefore one which can carry both passengers and freight, normally in dedicated vehicles.
If the coaches are only there as support for the freight then I would not describe it as a proper mixed train.

There are possibly grey areas when passenger and freight co-exist. Freight carried in guards compartments on passenger trains.
I would think the definitive answer is how the train is documented in railway timetables.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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