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The other project

 
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Andy in Germany



Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 523
Location: Stuttgart

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:10 pm    Post subject: The other project Reply with quote

Model railways with me are like busses: Nothing for ages, then two turn up at once...

This is the beginnings of 'Spitzenwald', the model I've been trying to make for a couple of decades in different forms. Now I'm finallyat the point where I can start thinking about the track plan, I've got several questions...

[img][/img]

[img][/img]

There's nothing ground breaking here: the line enters the terminus at top left, there is (from rear) loco stabling, a platform road and bay, with accessto akickback siding.This willeither serve a cooperative or vanish under a bridge to an off scene industry which will change with my mood. The loco stabling siding and platform road will end at a low-relief locomotive shed.

The red dots are possible places for uncoupling magnets, the white bits of plasticard represent isolating sections, although I'm not sure what use it would be isolating the cooperative siding so scratch that. I also think that the uncouplers on the platform and bay need to be close to the isolating section so I can release locomotives.

The join is butressed by two pieces of beechwood, and I'll run the track over copper covered silicon and solder it down before cutting through the join. I left a space at each side because despite my best efforts the bolts under the baseboard are too sloppy for positive positioning, and I was going to put a slider at the front and back to hold the boards in position while I fastened themtogether, but is that really needed? Can I use sloppy holes and align by eye?
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 814
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is that N gauge? you don't say,as I have designed a track section to go over board joins, curently only in OO/HO and O gauges. I intend to do one for 9mm gauge,but it will be for code 100 rail, so ends of rail would have to be slightly modified to match code 80.
Apart from resulting in having rail across joint, boards can be fixed together easier as do not have to be as accurate. Track can be at any angle across joint, jou just place the track section in place and cut. Only complex part is having to solder wires to the section on rrail across joint, and connecing to either or both tracks either side.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 2004
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: The other project Reply with quote

Korschtal wrote:
I also think that the uncouplers on the platform and bay need to be close to the isolating section so I can release locomotives.


My take on the coupler/isolation gap question would be:
1. Fit a coupler on the main line just before the lead turnout - that way you can come out of any track hauling a train, uncouple as required, and push back into another line.
2. Loco release uncouplers can be a loco length away from the buffers, unless you want to isolate a loco + another wagon/coach, while shunting with another loco. The isolating gap is then going to be about opposite the uncoupler.
3. Regarding 2 - try to ensure the uncoupler isn't always going to uncouple a wagon or coach at the rear of a train waiting to depart. Quite a difficult juggling act if all the stock is different lengths. You may just have to be careful where at the platform the train is placed.

Hope this helps.
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Andy in Germany



Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 523
Location: Stuttgart

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops. I missed the answers to this thread...

ruedetropal wrote:
is that N gauge? you don't say,as I have designed a track section to go over board joins, curently only in OO/HO and O gauges. I intend to do one for 9mm gauge,but it will be for code 100 rail, so ends of rail would have to be slightly modified to match code 80.
Apart from resulting in having rail across joint, boards can be fixed together easier as do not have to be as accurate. Track can be at any angle across joint, jou just place the track section in place and cut. Only complex part is having to solder wires to the section on rrail across joint, and connecing to either or both tracks either side.


It's 16.5mm gauge. There's a similar doodad available here, but I think
I'd be likely to break it, knowing my abilities to break almost anything that isn't at least three inches thick and solid wood.

giles b wrote:


My take on the coupler/isolation gap question would be:
1. Fit a coupler on the main line just before the lead turnout - that way you can come out of any track hauling a train, uncouple as required, and push back into another line.
2. Loco release uncouplers can be a loco length away from the buffers, unless you want to isolate a loco + another wagon/coach, while shunting with another loco. The isolating gap is then going to be about opposite the uncoupler.
3. Regarding 2 - try to ensure the uncoupler isn't always going to uncouple a wagon or coach at the rear of a train waiting to depart. Quite a difficult juggling act if all the stock is different lengths. You may just have to be careful where at the platform the train is placed.

Hope this helps.


Very helpful, thanks Giles. I'll have a look when I dig the model out of its box over Christmas...
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Andy in Germany
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 814
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

for uncoupling(either UK or European ones) the blade of grass method Roger Nicholls designed works very well. I have tried my own version on inset track with a thin piece of card sticking up.
He told me it could be more reliable than kadees . Only downside is having to have coupling hooks/loops only on one end, so is limiting when sidings go both ways. It would need some thinking then, with loco having no hook or loop, both ends and some wagons set right way round for each siding.
Extra blades can be inserted if needed.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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colpeake



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 146
Location: North Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruedetropal wrote:
for uncoupling(either UK or European ones) the blade of grass method Roger Nicholls designed works very well. I have tried my own version on inset track with a thin piece of card sticking up.
He told me it could be more reliable than kadees . Only downside is having to have coupling hooks/loops only on one end, so is limiting when sidings go both ways. It would need some thinking then, with loco having no hook or loop, both ends and some wagons set right way round for each siding.
Extra blades can be inserted if needed.


Having studied the operation of many of Roger's layouts (and indeed operated one or two) you find that the operation is planned in a way that wagons are dedicated to shunting one way or the other, never both, so the issue has never arisen for him!

Colin
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My blog: http://www.o9modeller.blogspot.com - Modelling 15" gauge railways in 7mm scale
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 814
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if we are making things over complex. Unless we have general all purpose sidings, then certain wagons should only go in certain sidings, Coal on coal siding, cattle truck next to cattle dock. The card game shunting puzzles can be fun, but are just that. There are other restrictions which would mean certain wagons(or coaches) would in practice never go on a certain section of track. Building that into the script can add realism, and possibly challenges.
Turning it round, maybe we are actually not being complex enough. We are taking the easy path(siding?) by allowing anything to go anywhere.
I have not only watched, but tried it out on my own mini layout,. It was even more difficult as I had to position wagon on a wagon turntable, but it did work eventually. It would not have been as easy to move magnets etc. I still need to finish that layout, especially as it only has 2 dead end sidings, both with wagon turntables, and pointing opposite ways. Different warehouses so different wagons.
To be fair, I am not creating a puzzle challenge, but it would work with the classic 3 line shunting setup. I may use that on something in future.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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Blackcloud Railways



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: Sandbach UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not so Simon, while certain types of wagon are routed to specific (un)loading spots they may also need to be left on other sidings during shunting manoeuvres. The only way of avoiding this is to use a light engine as the first move to collect and remove outbound wagons the run a second train of inbound wagons to fill the empty spots, even then you will need to leave wagons off-spot unless the inbound train is precisely marshalled to drop wagons in the right order.

While this MO is reasonable in certain circumstances, such as a very confined industrial area specifically tripped from a nearby yard, it is not prototypical for a station yard served by a pick-up goods train.
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 814
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that may be the case, but in practice many of our shunting(puzzle) layouts have sidings only facing one way, so it is not really an issue.
The visual and practical advantages of the system Roger developed I believe is better than some others. Many go for Kadees which look ok on USA and some modern stock, but look totally wrong on a British steam engine. Not that the hook and loop ones look much better on wagons, but on loco are only a simple loop, or hook.
The blade of grass system is very simple, can be modified, repositioned if necessary. Only modification to locos and stock is removing hook(s) or loop(s). It is also very cheap.
One option might be to have a shunters truck with both couplings complete. This could then be used if required to pick up wagons 'wrong way around'. Sometimes it is the simple problems that add the bigger interest.
One other thing, unless you have a run round loop, it is only going to be possible to shunt wagons one way round, so if there is a kickback siding, you can have stock specific for that. That is unless you either have asecond loco, some rope and capstan movements, or move items by hand in fiddle yard.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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