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1860 and all that
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Blackcloud Railways



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1983
Location: Sandbach UK

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we've become used to regimented buildings along neat roads, Britain certainly wasn't like that in the era modelled and the buildings on Great Sutton's backscene capture this well, very much like the almost random positioning of the buildings in this old photo of Sandbach.

Origin - http://www.coldmoss.co.uk/html/lower_chequer.html
I was drinking in this pub last night, it still looks as if it's been lifted straight out of a Discworld book. Very Happy
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Bob Hughes
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Once there were mountains on mountains and once there were sunbirds to soar with and once I could never be down.
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Graham W



Joined: 15 Jul 2014
Posts: 25
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giles, it was Chris Ellis who did the article on making up Merco wagons, although I did do an MTI article on constructing old Kenline & ERG cardboard wagon kits. Incidentally, the whitemetal axleboxes/springs from those kits (which I didn't use) have probably ended up under some of your 1860 stock!
Re. Merco brickpapers.....back in the 1980's, when Hamblings closed down, the copyright and existing stocks of the Bilteezi sheets were acquired by the Engineshed Shop in Leytonstone. Included were the remaining stocks of the Merco sheets. There were plenty of the wagon & coach sheets and some slate papers, but the Brickpaper sheets were long out of stock and the masters were never found. Ken Stubley who was the owner of the Engineshed then, tried in vain to find complete sheets of the brick papers so that he could reprint them but none were forthcoming. Today, with modern scanning and printing, you would probably only need a scrap of brick paper to do it, but back then Ken needed complete sheets.
When the Engineshed changed hands, the new owner was not at all interested in Bilteezi, so he sold the range to FMA. Although I understand FMA have re-printed some Bilteezi sheets, the Merco sheets never have been and the old stock is being (very) slowly sold off. What FMA have is the remaining sheets that originally came from Hamblings!

Graham
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 814
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giles, I have the catalogue. The Merco slate one is on the list, along with Bovril adverts sheet and a sheet of doors and windows.
I am just about to order a lot of the Bilteezi sheets, because I still believe they are the best ones I have seen for rural areas. For me they should NOT be glossy and in your face. They are background, and anyone who knows my work, I use an impressionist approach to backgrounds. It should not compete with what is in the foreground.
Also noone else , as far as I know has done a road that appears to continue into the 3D world effectively.
I would never actually use the Merco sheets to model, they are far too valuable for that, but i do want to get one of each remaining sheet. I have a couple of the LT ones, and was thinking of mounting one on a thin sheet which could be moved along the background, but as I am nt dong much more OO I will just keep them complete. They are good enough to frame and put on your wall.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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Edwardian



Joined: 02 Jun 2017
Posts: 4
Location: County Durham

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I just say that I have had a thoroughly enjoyable time reading through this topic.

The subject, a small independent line in Victorian days, really appeals to me.

I love the creative adaptation of RTR materiel; I am attempting similar.

I also admire the buildings and scenic work. Bilteezi sheets are great, as is the backscene, which I haven't seen used for years, and very adaptable. The artwork is first rate.
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James

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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1965
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks, James, for those kind words. I think the Bilteezi backscenes have been out of print just long enough to now seem unusual. And they do lend themselves to adaptation, either with a pc or the old way with scissors.
Glad the concept is of interest, too. I had a conversation with Steve Flint recently about a possible article, but think the whole idea is a bit too far off the mainstream for him.

I wish I could say that work is still in progress, but I've had to put life on hold a bit at present. Must get back to finishing off the rolling stock's brake gear - sadly lacking (or anachronistic) at present. Maybe in the autumn.
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Edwardian



Joined: 02 Jun 2017
Posts: 4
Location: County Durham

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply, Giles.

It was partly because I had seen your layout here that I thought I might post my own layout topic on this website, which I seemed to have managed to do today. So you have been a Recruiting Sergeant for MTI!

Now I would have thought that Railway Modeller would be ideal for featuring your layout, as I suspect it has probably the broadest topic coverage of the Big Four magazines.

I definitely think they should feature 1860 & All That, and I might just email and suggest that they do!

I hope you manage to get back to the modelling soon.

All the best.
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1965
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edwardian wrote:
I definitely think they should feature 1860 & All That, and I might just email and suggest that they do!


I'd better get writing, then!
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1965
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After a dew days spent back at the workbench, a majority of wagons running on Great Sutton now have brake-gear, thanks to some etched brake equipment available from NBR 4mm Developments. I've only used the long brake levers and part of the ratchet droppers, which are otherwise supplied by a length cut from a large staple from a tack-gun. Brake blocks are shaped from an oblong of balsa, hardened with button polish.

Here's a representative sample

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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1965
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I built Great Sutton I drew up plans for a terminus version as well as the junction, opting for the latter as it would have a different operating pattern to my other layouts. However experience at the layout's first outing showed that without two operators, a through station is quite hard to operate as there are regular interruptions to the service while the fiddle yards are re-organised.

I'm now looking at the possibility of returning to the terminal version. The plans haves too many differences for the junction to be rebuilt, so I may be parting company with the layout in its present form in the Autumn, after a photo session for Railway Modeller (for possible publication in late 2018).

Meanwhile what are the timetable implications for a terminus based on the Mid-Shropshire Railway's station in Bridgnorth (Salop Street)? The timetable used for Great Sutton provides for twelve workings to or from Bridgnorth over a normal working day, covering goods and mixed trains as well as passenger services. Three different locomotives work through to Bridgnorth, so there will be some variation for viewers. Goods traffic will be random, but after some thought I came to realise that there would be some regular weekly traffic needs. These can be summarised as follows:-
Monday: Loco coal - one 10 ton wagon to the loco shed.
Tuesday: Empty cattle trucks, as required, in advance of Ludlow's Wednesday market.
Wednesday: Loaded cattle to Ludlow by early train. Returning cattle late afternoon.
Thursday: Delivery of one van of salt (to be shared by various traders). Loco coal - One 6 ton wagon to loco shed.
Daily: One van of ice (from Ludlow), to be shared by local traders. Milk traffic - full churns and empties being returned.

The daily goods train is likely to be limited to 5 wagons plus brake, so it does look as if the Mixed trains will be needed for urgent traffic or wagons running direct between Ludlow and Bridgnorth, keeping the goods workings to service the smaller stations en-route.
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Blackcloud Railways



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1983
Location: Sandbach UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a baseboard join between the station platforms and the overbridge. Could you build an alternative end board where the two platform roads meet at a turntable, instead of extending under the bridge, enabling trains to run round? the baseboard join could be disguised by putting a level crossing between the platforms and the turntable.

Having arrived from the fiddleyard on one branch they could then return on the other, thus still being through trains instead of terminating and therefore not needing to exchange so many wagons with those in the sidings as they would be expected to as terminating trains.

This arrangement would allow the station to be operated as a reversing point or as a through station, the former perhaps illustrating an earlier period in the railway's history.
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1965
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is one idea, but means the layout would still need three baseboards, and that is one of the features I'd like to change. Also, the siding space is a bit limited for a terminus and not laid out too well, either, although it works as a junction. I am thinking of keeping the fiddle yard board that includes the road bridge, as this is a good way of getting "offstage", and the traverser helps to save length.

I have a couple of different ideas, both of which take Wantage Upper Yard as their starting point - one with a run round loop, the other without (but with a design that admits its addition later without too much upheaval. I need to lay the track out on a board to see if it/they work out full-sized, and will add the plans here later if they are possible options. In both cases there is a loco shed, which is a necessity, as a couple of locos need overnight stabling, according to the timetable.
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1965
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having tried out the two plans, full size, with track pieces, this is the one that fits the space the best:

EDIT (later)
Sorry, but having tried about four times with different versions of the image, the programme will not accept my upload of the plan. Will have to start over, rescan and re-try. But not tonight.


Last edited by giles b on Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CRACKED



Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 130
Location: Lowestoft, Suffolk

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure, if its just me.

I can't see any trackplan, just a crossed tick box.

I know this is a bit late in the discussion but here goes

One method for through stations which I have seen at exhibitions occasionally is a sector plate at one or both ends. Trains return to the fiddle yard by means of a hidden track at the back of the baseboard. The sector plates are in a self contained box attached to the end of the baseboard. They have only one leg at the end if required.
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1965
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm having problems uploading the new layout plan and will try again tomorrow.

Meanwhile - Clive - that suggestion would be good, but is hard to work where there is one route at end A and two routes at end B of the baseboard. In effect it would entail a total rebuild and make the baseboard too large to store at home. I was just not really satisfied with the operation of a through station anyway, and on consideration prefer to operate termini.

]
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1965
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Plan of the Mid-Shropshire terminus in the Upper Town at Bridgnorth (1853 - 1882). The short bay platform has end-loading and horse landing facilities as well as a cattle pen. Salop Street runs behind the buildings that back onto the siding at the top of the plan.
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