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A3 challenge from issue 48 page 321
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johno



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:07 pm    Post subject: A3 challenge from issue 48 page 321 Reply with quote

While looking for my old Hornby controller last night I came across a few old issues with articles about the A3 challenge layouts that had been or proposed to be built. Jack's Tramways de Chamiex-Les Thurs track plan caught my eye as I have been looking a small project to build over the winter. I intend to use HO gauge 4 Wheel trams for a setting somewhere in Germany and France. I have built the baseboard this evening and only need to order in a Wye point to get the track down.

I am hoping someone can post a track plan off it or it's available on Carl's website to view.

I am hopeless wiring a layout so may need some help but I am hoping to be able to use 3 trams on the layout by using sectional breaks and points operated by wire in a tube. Suggestion or help would be most welcome with the construction of the various buildings on the layout or how it could be improved for exhibition showing.

Johno
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Blackcloud Railways



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: Sandbach UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.carendt.com/micro-layout-design-gallery/a3-sized-layouts/

About half way down the page. Wink
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Once there were mountains on mountains and once there were sunbirds to soar with and once I could never be down.
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trams, inset track,plug!

For simple wiring, I always wire up my Peco points so that they are continental style, ie all tracks live(not electrofrog), and add isolating rail joiners to one of each rail off the point. Simple on/off switches then enable every track to be isolated, or live for those who want to go DCC. This means any dirt in point blades does not hinder running(quite often when at exhibition and someone is watching!)

Looking at that plan, and it would fit nicely on lids of two boxfiles.Another project , nohhhhhhhhhhhh...
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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Blackcloud Railways



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: Sandbach UK

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruedetropal wrote:
Looking at that plan, and it would fit nicely on lids of two boxfiles.
Or even one boxfile, opened out flat. Twisted Evil Wink Idea
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Bob Hughes
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Once there were mountains on mountains and once there were sunbirds to soar with and once I could never be down.
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johno



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruedetropal wrote:
trams, inset track,plug!

For simple wiring, I always wire up my Peco points so that they are continental ..



So Simon I should use Peco's settrack points then. What about the stalling and 4 wheel trams at the plastic and could you should me how to wire up the layout then?
Johno
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shortliner2001



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 837

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are bothered about stalling, use small radius electrofrog wyes, make sure that you break between both the rails that join the points, and put an insulated joiner between them bot if you are on a single board, and feed from the ends of the two sidings
Have fun
Jack

PS using non-setrack points will mean the layout will end up slightly longer. The Original imagined that the tram ran out through a walled city gate at lower left to a station platform between the two tracks at the right, and then ran back through the city wall gate to top left - two separate routes meeting at the junction with one tram in red and the other in green. It was designed with two motorised Gnomy trams in mind - since then some very nice HO trams have become available from Halling, and I think HAG. may be worth a look on ebay.de - there are some non-motorised ones also that may be worth motorising - If you want to go smaller, there are the N gauge Japanese modern ones


Last edited by shortliner2001 on Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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johno



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typical of me Jack. I have electrofrog wye's in stock but no settrack point and I have already have the baseboard built at 24" long. How much long would I need to make the baseboard in order to use the electrofrog wye's.
Johno
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shortliner2001



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 837

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should have no problem - the setrack wye is 16.8cm long and the code75/100 streamline small radius wye electrofrog are both 14.4cm long. The siding tracks at the rear of your wyes should be of a length to suit the trams - or any stock you want to run - eg it depends if you are going to run with single cars or if you will have a trailer/passenger/parcels/goods car - measure the length and then add a couple of inches to whatever length you need Taking your 24" board and allowing for the point you should have about 5"/13cm left for each of the sidings
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alastairq



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 355
Location: the land that time forgot

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If pick-up of current is an issue, why not go for simple radio control? Plenty of room inside a tram bodyshell for the gubbins?

If trams are to be the type of stock used, then I would also consider either making up my own track, or looking at some of the RTR tram track available, especially from the Continent.

Then, much tighter radii can be considered?
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johno



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
If pick-up of current is an issue, why not go for simple radio control? Plenty of room inside a tram bodyshell for the gubbins?


Never through of radio controlled trams.can you provide further information please?
Johno
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not had much trouble with stalling on setrack points. Wiring is a lot simpler, even with my mods. Problems are not just because of pickup,but wheels rising due to slight imperfections on tops of rails and frog. As long as one wheel on each side is in contact then no problem.
Dirt can get anywhere, which is why I add wiring so not dependent on tips of point blades. Graphite on rails helps pickup a lot, and no problem with trams as no real load to cause slipping. I have found I have more problems when loco stops on plain track, and then starts off again.
Motors with flywheels or something to keep movement helps a lot. Choosing a motorized chassis that runs very slowly and does not stall is worth while. I have found the one used in the Bachmann Hirails bus very reliable, but not so easy to get hold off . The other Hirails ones are not quite as good. In fact the bogie one used in their cheap Brill/PCC trams is pretty reliable, but don't be tempted by the older models.

Radio control is becoming more popular, and gets round problem of pickup, but I like auto shuttles for exhibitions, so something is always moving.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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giles b



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 2004
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruedetropal wrote:
the bogie one used in their cheap Brill/PCC trams is pretty reliable, but don't be tempted by the older models.


I've got one of these but haven't used it yet. How do you tell the older models from the newer, better ones?
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shortliner2001



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 837

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Units used in the HO scale Underground Ernie Locos are pretty good runners though being toys are inclined towards "Speediness". The twitchy eyes mechs remove easily. I used them to power the Roundhouse boxcabs on my 147th street layout
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ruedetropal



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Accrington, Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giles, First clue is box if there is one. New units in new style box. If you can look inside, then the motor unit in new units is a block with motor at top I think. Gear train down to wheels. I have found these run well with and without other bogie pickups.
I used to recommend the UE units, but I have recently had problems withs worm/gear drive. Possibly because I put unit on track when power was on, but gears are not meshing that well in one direction. Pity as I had no problems before. Luckily I have several units so can find one that works. Also won't go round very small radius curves.
For a bogie chassis I recommend the old DCC onboard Bachmann GE70. Superb slow running, even on analogue. Otherwise the Lima(ex Rivarossi) Italian bogie diesel currenbtly sold as a Junior model on Hornby International site. Downside with both of these is having motor in body, so visible though side windows if used in a tram, and they don't like very small radius curves. There was a superb boge tram chassis available from Japan, I got a couple, but now not available.
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Simon Dawson
Will try anything once, looking for the ultimate easy to set up portable exhibition layout, preferably French narrow gauge and with lots going on, not necessary on the rails.

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com
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shortliner2001



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 837

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depends how tight a radius you need - the boxcabs would cope with a 12" radius
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